Re: À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2

little smoke Ven 21 Nov 2014 - 22:01

Ah, ça fait du bien bye2

:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 XX_Brindle_Dublin_1987-_June_29

kenshiro Ven 21 Nov 2014 - 22:22

little smoke a écrit:J'ai de nouveau une petite crise :

terrible

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 3586520320

little smoke Ven 21 Nov 2014 - 22:28

Et c'te Bulldog, c'est-y pas beau ça Question

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 LX_Brindle_Bulldog_1988-_June_29

EnglishPhil Sam 22 Nov 2014 - 2:17

little smoke a écrit:Ah, ça fait du bien :

Là..... Je tombe faible....Pffffffff À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 2755558921

little smoke Jeu 27 Nov 2014 - 0:39

Une belle Billiard Shell Briar, tout ce qu'il y a de plus classique Very Happy

!

Et une Chesnut Four Square Panel comme j'en rêve What a Face

!!

little smoke Jeu 27 Nov 2014 - 0:48

Ce qu'elles sont moches ces Dunhill, c'est pas croyable hein Rolling Eyes

!

Et cette Dublin County groupe 6 affraid

:

Invité Jeu 27 Nov 2014 - 11:32

Je ne te le fais pas dire qu'elles sont moches ! À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 2524151128

allez en me forçant mais beaucoup beaucoup je pourrais me laisser tenter par la Shell Briard, mais vraiment parce que c'est toi...

Nicolarsen Jeu 27 Nov 2014 - 11:52

little smoke a écrit:Ce qu'elles sont moches ces Dunhill, c'est pas croyable hein !

Et cette Dublin County groupe 6 :

Allez je vais acheter mon ticket d'euromillions!

little smoke Sam 29 Nov 2014 - 14:44

Une jolie Billiard Comoy's Spectrum:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 P4021737-1

Une large Billiard sablée de chez Comoy's (1940-1950):

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 ComoyB

Invité Sam 29 Nov 2014 - 14:54

Sympa la 2ème...

kenshiro Sam 29 Nov 2014 - 15:24

Tabadoc a écrit:Sympa la 2ème...

les deux me plaisent bien,avec une préférence pour la deuxième Razz

little smoke Jeu 4 Déc 2014 - 22:36

Je tenais à partager avec vous le plaisir que j'ai eu hier midi d'être invité (pour la première fois!) à manger chez "mon fournisseur" comme je l'appelle, et ce fut un beau moment.

D'abord visite de son petit atelier où il répare, poli et restaure ses pipes.

Dans son bureau noyé de livres... Cinq petits tiroirs d'un meuble en bois presque anodin à un détail près, des étiquettes en métal gravées au nom des marques et séries de pipes (Dunhill, Charatan, Upshall, Ashton...!)cachant plus de 120 bouffardes d'excellence: 50 Dunhill sublimes et 50 Charatan tout autant magnifiques dont les bois sont à tomber et quelques Ashton, Ferndown, Upshall, Northern Briar...

J'ai pu contempler et tâter ces merveilles dont certaines sont TRES rares, magnifiques en terme de bois (des flammes parallèles comme si elles avaient été tracées par un artiste!) , formes et finitions, de même que d'une légèreté époustouflante affraid

!!!

Je n'ai pas pu prendre de photos, mais je vous promets que le contenu de ce meuble est un vrai "petit" trésor qui m'a troublé la tête pour un moment Twisted Evil

!

Je vais donc me refaire une petite crise... lol!

little smoke Ven 5 Déc 2014 - 0:13

Une superbe Charatan Bulldog Executive:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Fd0cab6ed36679fccbb5000fe142

Et celle-ci:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%201

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%202

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%203

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%204

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%205

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Charatan%20SH1389%206

Invité Ven 5 Déc 2014 - 19:06

la crise quarantaine se rapproche fi attention. Cool

tu aurais mettre ce petit meuble dans ton coffre le temps qu il était en cuisine À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 2524151128

Invité Ven 5 Déc 2014 - 21:08

little smoke a écrit:Une superbe Charatan Bulldog Executive:

Et celle-ci:

Je te comprends Petite Fumée quand tu fais des crises...

little smoke Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 18:14

Quelques Ashton comme j'en voudrais plus Twisted Evil

:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 IMAG1232-1

little smoke Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 18:17

Cette Cherrywood est sublime, parfaite:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 004-002-7098_2

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 004-002-7098_1

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 004-002-7098

Invité Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 18:22

Sympa les Ashton À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 2755558921

little smoke Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 18:30

Hein dit, et celle-ci Shocked

, une Billiard XL:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Dsc_0210

Invité Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 21:26

quelle tuerie À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 3586520320

little smoke Sam 6 Déc 2014 - 23:09

Ian et son père Georges Walker, fondateur de Northern Briars:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Smoking_Pipes

Bill Ashton Taylor (Ashton Pipes) et Ian Walker (Northern Briars) visiblement bons amis:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 P1200913

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 120chunkyrustriclightpremier

little smoke Dim 7 Déc 2014 - 22:17

Un joli paysage Shocked

:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Dunhill%20Marco%20rid

The AD Christmas Pipe 1996:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Museum-dunhill-1996-christmas-pipe-1-a1

Etc...

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Museum2-dunhill-thamesoak1

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Index-dunhill-white-spot-p-ft-a1

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Dunhill-white-spot-collection-bent-1-b11

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Dunhill-whitespot-collection21

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 1365-dunhill-galore-L-T30ygQ

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 1365-dunhill-galore-L-BVvZf2

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 1365-dunhill-galore-L-6Hpbf9

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 1365-dunhill-galore-L-jFg1H3

little smoke Dim 7 Déc 2014 - 22:52

On fait ses emplettes À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 1027026867

:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Img_2071

little smoke Dim 7 Déc 2014 - 22:55

Apple Cumberland Saddle:

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 002-015-1674

little smoke Dim 7 Déc 2014 - 22:58

Et cet article en anglais ( az9

!) sur les canadiennes Dunhill:

^(REVISED^12/1/01⁾

The Extra Long Shank Dunhill Canadian

2001 John C Loring

Since the mid 1970s Dunhill has stamped its pipes with a numeric code made up of numbers which identify the pipe by size, bit style and bowl shape or in other words a composite numeric category code system in which any given code encompasses several distinct, but similar pipe shapes. Prior to the mid 1970s however, the then, classic, Dunhill shape codes were not composites. Rather each of the those classic codes was assigned to represent a distinct pipe shape with even minor shape variations (e.g. a saddle rather then a tapered bit) given a different shape number. Of course nothing is absolute, shapes bearing the same classic shape code did evolve over the years. For instance the bits of the 120 and LC classic 3/4 bent shapes in the 1920's had an elegant curve that was lost in later decades and 120s and LCs dating to the late 1920's are sometimes found significantly larger then both their earlier and later brethren. But almost always Dunhill shapes denoted by the classic pre mid 1970's codes were consistent within any given year and with but few exceptions, from year to year. Except, it would appear, when it comes to the Dunhill long shank Canadian shapes - the ES, ODA 850 and ODA 851. This paper is intended to give you a closer look at these shapes and the development of my thoughts concerning the same.

Dunhill has made Canadian shapes since the 1910's with the "ES" ('extended shank' ?) being its long shank Canadian. For over a half century, from the 1910's to the mid 1970's, the typical ES pipe was consistent - a medium sized classic billiard bowl and a thin oval shank, approximately three inches long (measured along the top of the shank from the back of the bowl to the shank/bit meeting point). Sometime during the 1920's the ES bowl gained a bit more heft, a tad taller and a tad thicker, but for all intents and purposes at the end the typical ES of 1975 did not appreciably differ from that of its 1910s beginning.

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Image002

Yet unlike any other standard Dunhill shape that I know of, throughout that half century of apparent consistency one finds on rare occasion significantly longer shank versions of the ES with shanks running from 4" to almost 4 ¹/₂" long (4 ⁷/₁₆" being the longest I have ever seen or heard of) together with bowls a bit more reminiscent of the slightly smaller ones of the early 1920s.

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Image004

This is not, as in the case of the 120 or LC a one or two year phenomena or a mid stream shape change implemented consistently thereafter, but rather it seems to be a significant variation that apparently might be found, albeit rarely, in any given year that the ES was produced (although most examples seem to come from the 1950's - 1960s era). It is as if two quite distinct shapes share the same shape number – the typical version with an approximately 3” shank and the rare version with an approximately 4” shank - notwithstanding that this was 'forbidden' under the individualized Dunhill shape identification system employed prior to the mid 1970s.

The question of course is why? Initially I suspected that the answer lay twixt the dreams of pipe smokers and the realities of pipe making. Many pipe smokers who like the Canadian shape want the longest possible shank but the reality of pipe making is that the Canadian is a costly shape to make. The longer the shank the more raw briar is required, additional briar that might otherwise produce a second pipe. And the longer the shank the greater the chance of briar flaws wasting the entire pipe. I believed that Dunhill didn't offer an extra long, 4" - 4 ¹/₂", shank Canadian as a standard shape simply because after taking into account the wastage of time and material that would be involved it determined that it could not profitably make such a shape within its overall price structure. Indeed I came to conclude that even with the typical ES Dunhill knowingly stretched its then shape identification system by aiming for a 3 ¹/₄" shank but settling for anything longer then 2 ³/₄", i.e. approximately 3" long, in a shape system that distained 'approximate'.

But if the foregoing might explain why Dunhill didn't offer an extra long shank Canadian as part of its standard line, that doesn't explain why in fact we do on rare occasion find ESs with extra long shanks of 4” – 4 ½”. That answer I not so long ago concluded lay in the adage of never looking a gift horse in the mouth. Pipe makers were probably instructed that when it looked like the briar would allow for an extended shank they should take advantage of it. If a 4" shank ES might not be a 'proper' ES it would none the less certainly be welcomed by discerning Dunhill customers.

More recently I have brought the ODA Canadians into my considerations. In 1949 Dunhill began to develop a new line of oversized standard shapes. They were termed 'Giants,' given three digit shape numbers beginning with an "8" and price stamped "ODA". Three of those new shapes were Canadians, the 845, 850 & 851.

The 845, the most commonly found ODA Canadian, is in fact a fairly typical post WWII 'ODA' pipe. It has a significantly larger bowl then the ES and is usually found with a 2 ¾" – 3 ¼” oval shank. Reportedly one or two 845s were produced with shanks as long as 3 ¾” but none in the 4” or 4” + category addressed in this paper.

On the other hand both the 850 and 851 while atypical post war ODAs as both have small, group 4 size, bowls, are quite pertinent for the purposes herein for like the ES they may be found on rare occasion with 4" and longer shanks.

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Image006

The 851 is a very rare pipe in any form, I have heard of only a handful and am familiar with only the one I own. Interestingly, my 851 is in most all respects an extra long shank long ES although on close examination one finds that the bowl is slightly larger and the 4 ¹/₈" shank is decidedly thicker at the bowl with a taper that thins to the bit. As the bit on my 851 is significantly longer then a normal ES bit the pipe as a whole is longer then an ES. It has a 'heftier' feel as compared to a long shank ES, but ignoring the greater overall length of the 851 due to its longer bit, one would be hard pressed at first glance or from a distance to distinguish between the two. One might assume that it was given Giant/ODA status because of the extra long shank but in fact I have been advised that most of the other known 851s have shorter shanks then mine.

À nous les petites anglaises... Partie 2 - Page 2 Image008

More commonly found, the 850 is one of the few Giant/ODAs to be actually pictured in a Dunhill catalog (the 1968 Wholesale/Export). As pictured in that catalog one finds that its bowl and shank are slightly smaller and shorter the those of a typical ES and that the pipe is about the same overall length of the typical ES only because of a rather long, ‘851ish’, bit. However, as actually found outside the catalog, in collections, at pipe shows and on eBay, the 850 is almost indistinguishable from the typical ES with a, longer then shown in the catalog, 3 ¹/₄" shank and a shorter, then shown in the catalog, bit. Looked at closely though the 850 shank, like that of the 851, is a thicker at the bowl with a slight taper to the bit. That is, while the 850, 851 and ES are all quite similar, the 850 and 851 seem to differ from the ES principally in that the latter has a flat oval bit while the former two have tapered oval bits, and continuing, the 851 differs from the 850 in that the former has a longer bit and is overall a longer pipe. And returning to the principal emphasis of this paper, like the ES and 851, on rare occasion the 850 too is found with a 4” or longer shank.

Thus like the ES both the 850 and 851 appear to have two variants, the commonly found 3” (or so) shank and the rarely found 4” (or so) shank. Initially it appeared to me that while I had turned to the Canadian ODA shapes to shed some light on the ES extra long shank variation, I had instead found the same variation without an answer. But perhaps not, for then I realized that while I had been concentrating on shank length my review of ODA Canadian shapes had forced me to look at the overall pipe length. Putting aside my new questions over why Dunhill had three virtually identical pipe shapes, it occurred to me that the answer to my initial ‘variant’ question lay in the overall pipe length of each shape. And looking at both the 850 and ES I found that indeed while shank lengths may differ, within each shape the overall length of the pipe was essentially the same, the length of the bit varying depending upon the length of the shank. The rare 4”+ shank length variation remains but its continued intermittent existence without unique shape numbers for over a half century within Dunhill’s classic shape number system is explained. Dunhill simply allowed for the occasional rare extra long shank by focusing the ES and 850 shape specifications on the overall length of the pipe with a minimum shank length requirement. (Of course this does not explain my pictured 1961 ES which is a ½” longer in overall pipe length then customary, but what pipe maker could ever contemplate cutting down its 4 ⁷/₁₆” shank.)

But initial question resolved, a new question remained. Why in the 1950s did Dunhill introduce ODAs that were for all intents and purposes an ES? In answer I return to the 1968 wholesale / export catalog. That catalog is fairly extensive and covers a full range of Dunhill pipes, including the Giant/ODA 850 and the EC, a distinctly smaller version of the ES, but surprisingly, not the more popular ES. More popular but also, even at its typical 3" shank length, a decidedly more expensive standard shape to produce. I can not claim certainty but it seems to me that perhaps Dunhill hoped that in time it would be able to quietly drop the ES from its standard shape line in favor of the higher priced ODAs. Of course in the upshot Dunhill dropped the “ES” in the course of dropping the entire shape number system in the mid 1970s and effectively the ODA 850 and 851 shapes similarly disappeared.

Typically one can deal with older Dunhill pipes simply on the basis of shape number, date code and a question or two on condition, but the ES and 850 are the exception for rare examples of pipes deceptively bearing those shape numbers but with extra long shanks of 4” or more remain to be found. Good hunting.

Contenu sponsorisé